Fun Facts

Over Twenty Thousand Students Took SAT Prep in China Last Year

 

As my SAT scores continue to plateau, despite months of study and determination (and a lot of fun), I've stomped my feet and declared on more than one occasion: "Who are all these kids rocking the SAT and what are their parents feeding them?"

From May 5, 2011 Business Week:

Twenty thousand students took SAT prep in China with 'New Oriental' last year, representing at least a 90 percent share of that market......

"New Oriental seems to have cracked the SAT code," says Phillip Muth, associate dean for admissions at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville. Its 1,200 applicants from China this year had an average of 610 out of 800 on the SAT's reading section and 670 in writing, as opposed to 641 in reading and 650 in writing for U.S. applicants.  In math, they achieved an average of 783, compared with 669 for U.S. students. "

It is not lost on me either that English is a second language.

 

Illustrations by Jennifer Orkin Lewis


 

 
31 Comments | posted May 24th, 2011
 
 
  • http://blog.pwnthesat.com PWN the SAT

    An average of 783 in math is pretty OK for 1200 students, I guess. 

    • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

      said like a perfect scorer.....

      • http://blog.pwnthesat.com PWN the SAT

        I was being facetious, but seriously, that is incredible.

        • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

          I know!! (so was I)

  • http://tutor.michellecronin.com Michelle

    Just wanted to chime in -- as I understand it, Chinese students who take the SAT differ from American students who take the SAT in that they are usually aiming only for the top schools in the U.S. and are already considered excellent students. Students of all different levels take the SAT in America. In effect, the Chinese group is self-selective. The article also briefly details how students nonchalantly cheat on the test in China. That aside, those scores are still very impressive!

    • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

      Interesting about it being a select group. I should have pointed out!

  • Joey Bernstein

    As a professor in Engineering, I see that the Chineese students who study in the US are just incredible. Out of 18 Ph.D's I advised, 16 were from China and we don't get any Americans into the doctoral program with nearly their qualifications. When they go back home, they will just leap-frog the US within the next 10 years.

    • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

      That is incredible.  Can I ask where you are a professor?  Also, what do you think we should be doing to stay competitive?  (I ask this as a mother, not the student, this time!).

      • Joey

        I was at University of Maryland, CP until I moved to Israel. I found a direct correlation with wireless internet in the US classrooms with zero productivity. Even when they do homework, it is whatever they find on the internet. Colleges in the US have taken the work out of homework (after all, "they are the customers!" to quote my former Dean). International universities (including Israel) still take learning seriously. The US, in my humble opinion, maintains its sports and party programs far better than any academics. I think the same is true for college prep in China, it is very competitive and they still require the kids to work for themselves or face disgrace. Not such a bad idea.

        • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

          It's so interesting that you say that because I was JUST telling my friend Catherine Johnson http://www.kitchentablemath.blogspot.com/ that I'm really making move away from the internet.  It's like a visceral reaction I'm having.  It actually feels physical. 

          I haven't picked up my ipad in 6 months, and I've started keeping my laptop in small, uncomfortable room, because I'm "afraid" of it. 

          She asked me why.....and I said that the Keller piece in the NY Times magazine  described it perfectly: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05   

          QUOTES FROM PIECE:
          We are outsourcing our brains ot the cloud
          Social Media is Aggressive Distractions
          Enemy of contemplation
          The epitome of in one ear out the other

          I'm also about 3/4 of the way done with The Shallows which very much supports what I'm feeling.http://www.amazon.com/Shallows-What-Internet-Doing-Brains/dp/0393339750/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306358045&sr=8-1  I want paper books in quiet places. Yikes.  What's happening to me!Next month I'm supposed to be studying with Grockit and I actually feel nervous. http://grockit.com/sat

  • Elise

    I would like to point out something about my son -  the one who got the 800 on the math portion of the SAT and is valedictorian of his class.  The recommendation letter for college that he received from his physics teacher said that he has a true desire for knowledge and that the good grades just follow.  The letter was filled with all sorts of nice things but this was one of the points that really made my son happy because this teacher really knows him.  Yes, it does feel nice to "win" and many times he does work hard to get a good grade in a class that he doesn't enjoy but that is not what is most important to him.  Learning math and science is what is important to him and as a result he gets A+s in those subjects.  I have taught all my kids to have  discipline in the face of difficult tasks but I am not sure if I was the one who "taught" them to find the subjects that they enjoy and the focus on them.  I guess if I had to think about it, I promoted this in the sense that I don't feel that school and life should be so much of a competition.  As a result I have a difficult time with things like award ceremonies and times where I feel like I am bragging about my kids.  I'm supposed to go and clap and cheer because I am a proud parent but inside, these are not the things that make me proud and enjoy my kids.  I am proud that my son got a job tutoring a boy in math and it resulted in the boy going from an F to a B.  I ENJOY my son because he runs every where - even across the room and also because he has a wind meter and solar panel attached to the house outside his room and because the mess in his room is wires, containers and who knows what else.  He doesn't get an A+ or any award for these things but those are the kinds of things  that may possibly help him get good grades in his classes.  Ditto for my other two kids.  I know that this is coming off as holier than thou but that in no way is my point.  I try not to brag about my kids or say these kinds of things but I guess I am doing it now because I am trying to make the point that my sons secret to an 800 on math is a love for math.  I doubt he would get out of the 600s on reading and writing because he does not love those subjects.  I guess you can get an 800 without loving math but I would expect it would be difficult.  That would be an interesting survey to see how many of the perfect scorers really loved the subjects. 

    • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

      I completely agree (you're more likely to do better if you love it).

      And I also hate awards ceremonies, especially for celebrations such as "8th grade graduation."  
      My question is, how (specifically) did you make your kids love learning?   This whole project started as a way to get my son excited about the SATs, instead of dreading it like the rest of the world.  Surprisingly, it worked.  He actually likes doing SAT work, though he'd never admit it.  We also rarely have the time to do it, and I'm am hoping we can get into it this summer.

      My kids are in schools (not public) where *most* of the teachers engage them and the curriculum is top notch.  It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it's amazing how far a great curriculum and some pretty good teachers will take you towards engagement. I have also found that the more I climb into the trenches with my kids, the more engaged with the material they become (e.g. if I read the same books, or test them on this or that material).

      BUT, I don't think that being excited and engaged and interested is something that "just happens" for most kids, and the reason I pulled them out of public school is because I lost faith that they were capable of exciting my kids about learning with any more frequency than an exception.  I believe the issue was more about an inadequate curriculum and absurd layers of bureaucracy than it was about the teachers, who were mixed, as they are anywhere.

      So Elise, my question to you, is, specifically, what did you do to teach your children to find subjects that interest them and what sorts of techniques did you use to get them through the dips that are inevitable, and how did you get them to plow through subjects they didn't like.

      Why Kids Don't Like School just arrived in the mail, btw.
      http://www.amazon.com/Why-Dont-Students-Like-School/dp/047059196X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306411043&sr=8-1

      • Elise

        I am just about to go through the 8th grade awards/graduation ceremony!  Ha ha ha!  There is a very good chance that my daughter is #1 or #2 in the class and will probably get a few awards...ugh.  Then I will have the awards ceremonies at the high school...scholarship night will actually be good - show me the money! hee hee.

        Okay, I will tell you some things that may or may not have made a difference with my kids.  First I have been told (mostly when my kids were younger) that I think too much about this parenting thing but I took it very seriously.  I came up with only three rules for my kids that were broad.  Do not hurt others, be safe and be happy.  I realized as they grew I wanted them to be good, productive people but not at the expense of their happiness.  

        No regular chores, just do whatever I ask on those rare occasions I asked them to do something.  Their "job" is student.  All I ask is that they work hard at that job.

        When Thomas was in first grade he didn't want to do his homework one night and I said fine, he was the one who had to go to school the next day and tell his teacher that he hadn't done it (and she was mean and awful).  Never a problem after that!  I guess the point was that his actions affected his life not mine and I've made this type of point...cat puking got to go, be back....false alarm...phew.  Anyway,I made that point over the years.

        I guess the single most important thing I've done to get them to love certain subjects is I've tried to recognize ahead of time what they like and have a talent for and make sure I compliment them in those areas as well as other areas - mostly in TRUTHFUL indirect ways.  I would say something like "I wish I could remember biology as well as you."  "I don't know how you get the energy and motivation to come home and do all that homework!"  "I hope Sarah will be as good a driver as you and Thomas."  "You know why Alyssa criticizes you in English is because she feels bad because you are fortunate enough to have a natural talent for writing."  "Aren't you happy that you aren't like the other kids who try to make their schedules based on trying to boost their GPAs and you take the classes that you love?!?"  "I guess you can take it as a compliment that the #2 kid in the class comes to you for help in chemistry."

        I've found that I have to remind myself that they need more of these comments than I sometimes give.  I have always had to give more compliments to my girls than to my son and just lately I've tried to point more things out to them since it's been a bit of a rough year for both of them as far as dealing with jerky people.

        And like I said, I hate competition in life and I've made sure my kids know that.  I think that they've gotten the message.

        They also know that college is about training for a career and although money is important and they need to make sure they come out with the skills to get a job, happiness is also important.  Maybe that's why they've spent high school finding what they love and want to do with their lives.

        Finally, I often go against the advice people seem to be all to willingly to push on me.  I go with my gut and so far so good.  Sorry this is so long but parenting is one of those very involved things! 

        • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

          This is great advice.  Thanks Elise.  I'm going to turn it into a blog post when I get a minute.  It deserves highlighting!

          • elizabethonline

            I recommend reading MindSet by Carol Dweck on this topic.

          • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

            Read it! Good one.

        • http://tutor.michellecronin.com LC

          This is wonderful. But that last part about college as training for a career? You do realize that eliminates many schools with liberal arts educations, including the Ivies, right?

          • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

            That caught my attention too -- but I internalized the line as meaning that what we learn (in college, and beyond) becomes part of the career training fabric of who we become. I read the line literally, for a second, and then took it out a few layers to be more abstract.
            I had a liberal arts education -- and went into a career in book publishing.I think learning about history can inform how we conduct ourselves in our careers (as well as in our communities).And learning about art can influence our websites, and I'm always influenced by the books I've read, etc.

            Maybe my personal experience colored my reading of that line!

          • Elise

            Hmmm.  I am very intrigued by both your comments...and sorry Debbie, but you probably should indeed look at my comment as literal because I do see college as training for a career.  I realize now that this probably will sound really bad to you but I would never want my kids to go to college and not declare a major.  However, I've also made it clear to them that I see nothing wrong with changing their major but again, my view is that you are paying the college to teach you what you need to know for an entry level position.  I'm actually finding this VERY interesting because I would have never looked at things your way...and I would have thought that everyone would have agreed with me....ha ha.  

            I'm also seeing that my opinion may appear to conflict with what I initially said about how my kids have a true desire for knowledge and that the good grades just follow.  My guidance for college is that they need to focus their goals while still seeking and enjoying the knowledge. 

            Debbie, my question for you is why did you go to college for a liberal arts education?  Also, if you didn't see college as a way to train for a career, how did you view it?   Did you just see it as an extension of high school? Also, if college is not training for a career, did you think your career would develop more from on the job training?  Did you have any idea when entering or exiting college what you wanted to do for a career?  Really, my questions are not meant to be rhetorical or sarcastic, this whole topic is foreign to me but very interesting.   
            Also, for LC, the Ivies do give degrees in engineering that my son is planning to go for but what eliminated the Ivies was their lack of merit aid.  But yes, I do realize that eliminates schools but I thought that was part of the college search process. My son wants to be an engineer so he had to pick schools that would have engineering degrees as well as other science and math majors so he can change if he wants.  My 11th grade daughter wants to be either a microbiologist or biochemist so she is looking at schools that have both degrees.  I am an engineer and I can counsel my son so he knows that he can get an engineering job with just a bachelor of science. but we are trying to find out how much "training"/education my daughter needs for her chosen career.

            I enjoyed your comments and look forward to any more...maybe I'm this way because I am an engineer???  Interesting....

          • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

            Quick answer is that I DIDN'T THINK!  I just did it because I was aimless, and without guidance. (My parents might disagree, but that is my recollection!)

            I do remember thinking that everyone knew what they were doing except for me.

            After college, I still had NO idea what I was doing....so I went to the Radcliffe Publishing Program (now Columbia) and stumbled into a 20+ year career in book publishing.  

            I fell into it without much intention, and really just got lucky because I loved book publishing.

            That said, I haven't thought that deeply about how I will advise my kids on the matter.  I know that I feel lucky to have had the luxury of a liberal arts program, and I'd love my kids to have that gift too. 

            My son is a math and science kid -- so college as career seems more organic of a process l -- but my daughter is more like me (i.e. social!).  Not sure how I will advise her -- though she says she wants to be a middle school guidance councilor, which is WAY more career vision than I ever had -- even into my early twenties.

            Now the wheels are turning......Must give this more thought.

            I have to run, but to be continued later.....

          • http://tutor.michellecronin.com LC

            Hi, Elise. Your son's situation is unique in that STEM majors can easily lead to more schooling (Masters, Doctorate) and/or a job. I should have mentioned that I view this as an exception to the rule. If your son had been interested in or excelled in the arts or humanities, then I presume your story might be a little different.

            I find that in Europe many kids leave high school with an idea of what they want to do professionally (and subsequently train to do that work) while at university. I find that this occurs much less often in the US.

            Also, although the Ivies usually do not come through with merit aid, several are generous with need-based aid. This is why I attended an Ivy. And for the record, I majored in a subject in the humanities. I graduated fewer than five years ago. I interned at different companies each summer (and also worked 2-3 part-time jobs while I was an undergraduate) in order to gain practical work experience. Without having done that, I would have had absolutely no professional skills following graduation. That said, I loved my time as an undergraduate in part because I was able to study in a very focused manner exactly what I love and what interests me the most. But job prospects in that field are scarce and merely gaining a spot at a graduate school in that field is almost impossible (especially without shelling $$ for a Masters).

          • Elise

            LC:  I guess I'm realizing for whatever reason, having my kids understand the importance of working towards a career is really foremost on my mind.  It probably has something to do with watching various family members flounder and struggle financially because they didn't have any focus.

            Debbie:  I guess the over-controlling side of me would shudder at watching my kids follow in your footsteps but obviously your life has worked out!  Ha ha ha!  I think maybe this can be a lesson for me to let things happen as they will!  

            I will have the most trouble guiding my youngest who is an incredible artist both in actual talent AND personality.  Very tough for two engineering parents to understand this girl!     

          • http://tutor.michellecronin.com LC

            Best of luck with that!

            One thing I will add:  When I was in high school, I thought I really wanted to pursue a career PR. Even though I studied the humanities in college, I devoted my summers to internships in PR. By the time I finished college, I realized that I actually HATED PR and had absolutely no interest in pursuing it as a career. I think that finding a career that fits can take time for some people and requires years of self-discovery. Conversely, my mother as a high schooler had no idea that her current job was something that even existed! She simply fell into it. Every person has a different path in life. Sometimes it is an easy thing to figure out. Other times, it can be a little bit harder.

          • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

            Right.  I think internships are probably a more reliable path to a career than college, as I knew it  

            That said, if you want to be an engineer, you've got to have those core skills!

          • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

            I would shudder watching my kids follow in my footsteps too.  I got very lucky, but I also think that my parents instilled just enough fear in me to ensure that I did what needed to be done to stand on my feet.

          • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier
    • Pat

      As I read your long post, I realized that no matter how hard my daughter tries she will never be able to compete with a child like yours. My daughter has tried everything possible to bring her grades up with not much luck; her SAt's score are below average and she barely makes it to the next grade. She will be a senior this year and because of God's wishes or my lack of teaching her discipline she will have to work a bit harder in life. The point here is, arrogance will not lead to happiness. if your child is so amazing, keep it to your self. He has already gotten what he deserves, I guess... You haven't showed a "secret", you have only bragged about a lucky child. I just hope my daughter is luck enough not to marry someone with a mother like you.

      • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

        Hi Pat.  If it's any consolation, I did terribly on the SATs in high school, and I did ok (I think).  

        That said, for whatever reason (and there are many), I'm obsessed with the SATs now, and I do actually find it helpful to hear what other parents have done to help their kids succeed.  Believe me, I only do a fraction of what I know I should do, but somehow, hearing it helps me, just a little bit.

        I asked Elise to share what she'd done, so she really wasn't bragging; she was answering my question.

        I agree that there are many paths to happiness, and I know a TON of people who are successful and happy, and got TERRIBLE SAT scores (and grades).  One dear friend told me he went to college (because his mother made him) and asked the teachers "how do I get a D."

        He is EXTREMELY successful now and very well known in fact.  

        I'm regretful that I didn't do well in high school and doing this now is in part a way to make up for that.  Who knows, maybe your daughter will be a middle aged mom some day who's obsessed with the SATs too.

      • Elise

        I regret commenting on this blog because I never want to make someone feel bad in regards to their children.  I made the comment because the title of the blog is "Perfect Score Project" and Debbie seems to be wondering how some students get perfect scores.  So I wrote why I thought my son got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT.  He loves math and spends hours learning it and for him that helped. 

        I realized from your comment that I did not really get my points across.  You didn't seem to understand that I wish that students did NOT have to "compete" with each other.  You also didn't seem to understand that the things I like best about my children are not their grades and SAT scores.  I definitely did not get these points across.  That may be a function of my poor writing skills.   What I failed to write in my comment was that since my kids have been in primary school I have told them that I cannot be proud of how smart they are because they are just lucky to have been born with the brain they have (just as you put it in your comment I always used that exact word "lucky")  They heard it many times.  I told them that instead I was proud of how much effort they put into their work.  In that sense, I would be proud if I had a daughter like yours who works so hard - in fact I can think of a friend's son who has struggled and I brag about him.....because he works harder than anyone I know.I know it's truly ridiculous that your comment actually hurt my feelings but I have to at least say that it is totally unfair of you to say that my son is arrogant based on reading my comment.  In no way does that word describe my son.  Letting that go by would be a disservice to him and the hours that he has spent tutoring students that struggle like your daughter...in some cases in secret because they are embarrassed and don't want anyone to think they are stupid.  He tutors simply because he wants to help people so he doesn't mind keeping it a secret.  No, he is not arrogant.   

        • http://www.perfectscoreproject.com Debbie Stier

          I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS!  And I didn't take it the wrong way.  I totally got what you re-explained.  Please continue to share what you've learned along the way. It is very helpful.

  • Pingback: College as Career Training | Perfect Score Project

 

TAGS:
, ,